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Did we lose a helo in Iraq containing 2 Colonels, 1 Lt Colonel, 1 Major, 1 Captain, 2 Command Sgt Majors and more?

UPDATED NEW POST EXPLAINING SOME ISSUES 

UPDATE: Here is the link to the CNN Website showing KIA in Iraq. (hat tip Dorkafork at Vodkapundit) Exactly the ranks listed by Honestjoe are listed KIA in a Blackhawk crash. Maliki is our ally? Oh my gosh the ramifications to our efforts in Iraq are dreadful…the only way to get past this is to understand that Iran is pulling the strings and take the war finally to Iran. The United States has to stop acting like a we fell off the turnip truck yesterday.

How did the insurgents know who was on that Helicopter? Are they getting inside information? How can we continue to fight if the very government we are fighting to protect is aiding and abetting attacks on us?

The terrorists know that this is a crucial moment in American history. They understand the crushing blow it will be for the American public to see that not only did we lose some tremendously valuable men but that we have been infiltrated by our enemy aided and abetted by those we have vowed to protect.

Below I include the entire comments of one Honestjoe. These were recently left in response to this post, Sophisticated Attack, does this implicate Iran?. I do not know Honestjoe but his comments have the ring of truth in them from what I know of the situation in Iraq. These are presented in two parts with the second part containing the most blockbuster revelation. In that portion Honestjoe outlines the loss of a single helicopter with a list of officers on it that if it turns out to be confirmed will be a body blow to our efforts. 

I do not trust Maliki or any Iraqi at all because of what happend during the latest attacks on our military and here is why….

This smells like an inside job. If there wasn’t any inside job on this, then it shows a major breakdown in intelligence and security.

How else could they obtain a top Iraqi official’s license plate and get through all the heightened security ‘disguised’ as Americans with identification cards and driving ‘American-style’ vehicles like the ones used to carry U.S. officials, through checkpoints and be able to conduct a twenty-minute surprise attack including sound bombs, with no apparent response from nearby security forces, even as they drove BACK through the checkpoints!?!

And how did they know when to storm the provincial headquarters just as a U.S. military civil affairs team was meeting with local leaders?

Also the major Shi’ite religious festival was taking place, and 8,000 extra Iraqi ’security personnel’were in the area.

They were waved through by Shia security forces on heightend security against Sunni attacks to protect 3,000,000 Shia pilgrims at the ceremonies celebrating the greatest Shia martyr.

Highly unlikely that the ambushers were Sunni.

Going in through check-points and back out through check-points. And speaking English. And the license plate of a top official taken from inside the Green Zone!

Also the guards radioed the headquarters that the convoy was on the way. Nobody informed the Americans in the headquarters, though.

But why abduct the soldiers just to kill them shortly thereafter in a location away from this facility? It doesn’t make sense given all the precision of that raid.

Well to get the answer we first have to look at the Iraqi official’s license plate.

Maj. Gen. Qais al-Maamuri, a police commander in Hilla, said the plate had been stolen from a BMW that belongs to Abdul Falah al-Sudani, a member of the Shiite Muslim Dawa Party.

Sadr’s faction exists within the Dawa Party. Thats the old Shiite Muslim party that Saddam murdered and exiled to Itan. Its most prominent memebr today is Prime Minister Maliki.

The Sadr movement also won the agriculture, transport, and education ministries. The outgoing SCIRI interior minister was given the coveted Ministry of Finance.

As a cleric, al-Sadr does not take a direct role in politics. But his supporters were given control of six Cabinet positions, including the Health Ministry. Similarly, Iraq’s Interior Ministry that runs the police and domestic intelligence services has been controlled for over a year by a leader of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and accused of operating death squads.

Sadr’s and SCIRI’s were awarded with various ministries in exchange for joining the government. One of Sadr’s ministers, for instance, was in charge of the airport. He immediately fired the British security firm contracted to provide security.

The Bush administration has urged the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to confront Shiite militias, including al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army. Al-Maliki, who relies on al-Sadr for political support, has been slow to act, saying it may not be until next year before militias are disarmed. Al-Sadr’s support was instrumental in putting al-Maliki in power.

Because of al-Sadr, “Al-Maliki was able to become prime minister despite the fact that other political parties had gained more seats in parliament,” says Vali Nasr, author of The Shia Revival. “He is al-Sadr’s prime minister.”

Maliki needs al-Sadr for more than political support he needs him for actual survival. It is important to know that al-Sadr’s father-in-law was the founder of Dawa and, of course, his father was the founder of Fadhila (sp?) – Party of Virtue. al-Sadr has the power to cripple Iraq – as if it isn’t crippled already – with civil disobedience, strikes, boycotts, and armed conflict.

The U.S. doesn’t want Maliki but they didn’t have a choice as they had tried to get Dawa to give up power by meddling in Jaafari’s reascension to power after the last election. The best they could attain was Dawa’s second choice but they traded that for relative peace with the Shia militants against U.S. and British forces.

The U.S. would prefer Az al-Hakim and the Badr gang because they know that SCIRI would absolutely be dependent on the U.S. for its continued existence in Iraq.

Here is something to keep in mind as well, An Iraqi judge is alleging that elements of the Mahdi Army have infiltrated the Green Zone, the area behind concrete barriers where the Iraqi government offices are. Sunni Arab guerrillas have long been said to be trying to figure out a way to get into the Green Zone and conduct a major operation there. So far they have failed, but was the truly credible threat from a different quarter?

Continued in next post with details to the recent and unreported killing of several TOP high-ranking American military officers in an even more brazen attack that could have only been done with the aid of some high officials from the inside. It will explain why I feel we cant trust anyone in Iraq.

Here is the second part of that blockbuster post…

continued from last post.

It is inportant to note that the heightend security was also because Gates was there and in less than 24hrs 5 more even worse attacks took place! Such as The lone UH-60 helicopter that was brought down on January 20 is a disaster for the United States.

This single event is the biggest hit the Army has taken to date in Iraq!

The List of Casualties from this attack contains the following:

2 Colonels
1 Lieutenant Colonel
1 Major
1 Captain
2 Command Sergeant Majors
1 First Sergeant
1 Sergeant First Class
2 Staff Sergeants
1 Corporal

Sec. Gates had a meeting with these high ranking military personel. He was in Baghdad on 19 Jan. The chief medical officer had been meeting with him, as well as the other high rankers!

That’s one hell of a lot of brass on a single helicopter flight. This could indicate infiltration into the Green Zone of untold proportions.

Let’s be clear, half of the manifest includes four field grade officers and two CSMs. That’s a huge loss for a small and agile force such as what we’ve got deployed in Iraq. On top of this fact is also the fact that CSMs are the enlisted equivalent of general officers. CSMs run the army. CSMs can bring any company grade officer down with little effort. The only officers that will generally stand up to a CSM and call them on the carpet would be full bird colonels (two of which were lost on this flight) and command officers (i.e. generals).

The loss of a single CSM can often bring a full brigade to a standstill.

When faced with an insurgency using guerilla tactics, taking out four field grade officers is a victory of epic proportions.

The military indicates it is investigating the event. One questions must be answered:

Who knew so many high value targets would be on this flight, especially who within the Iraqi government and military?

Remember at first the government said the choper was brought down by two rockets from two different locations but then it was said it was taken down by three rockets from three different locations. That means this was a prepared attack and was done with inside information.

But this is nothing for it gets much, much worse!

In my next post I will show evidence that the Iraqi government has been compromised and is being used against “US” when I post the details of 4 more even worse attacks that could not have been done without inside information.

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19 Comments so far (Add 1 more)

  1. I will answer it for you.

    The fact that Saudi Arabia pours large sums into lobbying firms and public relations companies with close ties to congress does not come as a big surprise. The FARA database under the DOJ website lists Qorvis Communications as one of Saudi Arabia’s registered foreign agents. In 2003, for only a six months period, Qorvis received more than $11 million from the Saudi government. Another firm, Loeffler Tuggey Pauerstein Rosenthal LLP, another registered foreign agent, received more than $840,000 for the same six-month period, and the list goes on. Just for this six month period the government of Saudi Arabia paid a total of more than $14 million to 13 lobbying and public relations companies; all registered as foreign agents.

    Who did the CIA memo dated August 2, 2002 say gave support for some of the September 11 hijackers while they were in the United States?

    The Saudi government with its members of the Saudi Royal Family and members of the Bin Laden family with close ties to the royal family!

    Who has direct financial ties to an oil, energy and weapons investment group which has raked in $Billions as a result of this War?

    The Bin Laden family!

    The bin Laden family has very strong ties in the Carlyle Group, a Washington-based investment company focused primarily in the arms, security, and energy industries.

    Who was sued by the 9/11 victims family members for complicity in the attacks?

    The Saudi Royal Family!

    The Saudi Royal Family also has very strong ties to the Carlyle Group, which invests heavily in defense companies and is the nation’s 10th largest defense contractor with ties to Enron, Global Crossing, among others.

    Who helped arange the evacuation of members of the Bin Laden Family after 9/11 and defended the Saudis against a lawsuit brought by the 9/11 victims family members?

    A man who happens to be the senior counsel for the Carlyle Group!

    Carlyle has profited immensely from the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars. Its legal matters are handled by Baker, Botts—James Baker’s law firm in Texas. Mr. Baker also has a personal interest in Carlyle, amounting to some $180 million. Another client of Baker, Botts is Exxon-Mobil.

    Who on the morning of September 11th had a investor conference with members of the familys incontrovertibly tied to 9/11?

    The Carlyle Group held an investor conference in the Ritz Carlton in Washington DC on the morning of September 11th, 2001 with members of the Bin Laden family and ect, tied to 9/11.

    The Carlyle Group, a Washington, DC based private equity firm that employs numerous former high-ranking government officials with ties to both political parties, was the ninth largest Pentagon contractor between 1998 and 2003, an ongoing Center for Public Integrity investigation into Department of Defense contracts found. According to this report, overall, six private investment firms, including Carlyle, received nearly $14 billion in Pentagon deals between 1998 and 2003. Considering the fact that Saudi Arabia is the top buyer of the U.S. weapons industry, Carlyle’s investment and its stake, and of course Jimmy Baker’s far reaching influence within the Pentagon and congress, everything seems to come together and fit perfectly to shield this foreign interest no matter the price to be paid by the American public.

    That might be why were giving a free pass to the Saudis who are supplying money and weaponry to those doing the most killing of Americans.

    3. honestjoe on February 16th, 2007 at 20:52
  2. Pierre Legrand I have a question for you.

    Army pilots alone are involved in about 100 incidents per month of enemy fire, with about 17 resulting in direct hits on aircraft, Simmons said. Since the war began, he said, the Army has lost 29 helicopters, ALL TO ENEMY FIRE. He did not have figures for the other branches of the military.

    According to the numbers from the DOD the Sunni insurgency has killed far more Americans than the Shiite insurgency!

    Doesn’t it logically follow that we should be threatening military action against Saudi Arabia which has been funding the Sunni insurgency, an insurgency that has killed far more Americans than the Shiite insurgency?

    According to U.S. intelligence reports the Saudi government played a direct role in funding 9/11 and Saudi Arabia has an active role as a player in the nuclear black-market. Also the U.S. State Department’s Human Rights Report shows Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship that makes Iraq under Saddam Hussein look like Disneyworld.

    Why are we giving a free pass to the Saudis who are supplying money and weaponry to those doing the most killing of Americans in Iraq?

    4. hanestjoe on February 15th, 2007 at 17:02
  3. 5. pooas on February 15th, 2007 at 10:02
  4. Honest Joe…I welcome your input. Though I may differ on some points I feel like your comments have been tremendously valuable.

    As a point of pride I never ban posters…and you have never come close to being considered.

    The differences between you and I are the sorts of debates that should have been occuring since 9/11 or before.

    6. Pierre Legrand on February 14th, 2007 at 21:20
  5. Maj. Gen. Jim Simmons, deputy commander of Multinational Corps-Iraq, told reporters there was no indication Iranian weapons were behind the latest spate of helicopter crashes.

    Simmons said investigators suspected that at least two of the recent shoot-downs, on Jan. 20 and Feb. 2, were linked because in “BOTH” cases “MULTIPLE” firearms were used in the attacks and “ROADS LEADING TO THE CRASH SITES WERE LINED WITH EXPLOSIVES TO DETER RESCUERS”. Fourteen troops died in those incidents.

    It has been confirmed that the attack on Jan. 20 was pre planned and that they were given their intelligence from at least one Iraqi general. We also know that they used multiple SA-16s/SA-18s rockets and that a large sale of those man-portable short-range rockets were sold to Saudi from Russia.

    The same Sunni group claimed responsibility for the four other helicopter crashes in recent weeks. U.S. officials have acknowledged that enemy fire brought down all those copters, which included a civilian one owned by the private security firm Blackwater USA.

    U.S. intelligence reports and the U.S. Iraq Study Group report as well as Iraqi intelligence reports said Saudis are funding Sunni Arab insurgents and the money is used to buy weapons, including Strelas, Russian shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles.

    We also know why the highly sophisticated state sponsored attack took place in karbala. The reason for the expensive and precise raid to abduct U.S. soldiers just to kill them shortly thereafter in a location away from the facility was to gain public support from the American people into invading Iran! It was a false flag operation sponsored by Saudi Arabia with nothing to gain but to draw America into a war with Iran!

    Pierre Legrand for some reason I have had trouble posting on here but I have never recieved any notification that you do not want me to so if this posts, I assume it was a problem with my computer. With your permission I would like to finish my other posts for I feel that the information is of vast importance for educated people like yourself. If you have any questions I would be glad to answer them.

    7. hanestjoe on February 14th, 2007 at 20:38
  6. 123123

    8. sara on February 14th, 2007 at 11:13
  7. The Saudi’s have been setting “US” up!!!!

    The man in Saudi Makram Chams whose convenience store in Venice Florida was used by Mohamed Atta and his cadre of terrorist hijackers to receive overseas wire transfers, and from whose apartment Atta and Marwan took taxis to Orlando Airport to pick up visiting Saudis has suit in Saudi Arabia, for a whopping $21 million, against Titan Corporation of San Diego for not paying him the agreed amount for work he did before and up to 9/11!

    In addition to owning a convenience store, the peripatetic Chams’ recent resume includes having been a partner in a Jack Abramoff-style gambling boat which operated for two years in Venice without permits, working for the FBI in San Diego, and pulling down multi-million dollar contracts in Saudi Arabia, one of which suspected of being with the Saudi Bin Laden Group, for controversial U.S. defense firm Titan Corp.

    Strangely (or not) the FBI apparently never bothered to mention anything at all to the 9/11 Commission about Makram Chams. Even though “numerous local witnesses have stated that several of the terrorists basically hung out at (Chams’) Kwik Check.”

    The FBI’s testimony before the 9/11 Commission revealed that the largest overseas money transfer the terrorists received had come from the UAE, for $70,000.

    A copy of the money transfer was projected overhead.

    What the FBI didn’t point out to the Commission was the significance of the address where the money was wired to: 201 Nokomis in Venice, the address of the Kwik-Check owned by Makram Chams, the man who shortly thereafter would be in Saudi Arabia procuring multi-million dollar contracts from the Saudi Bin Laden Group.

    Atta and his fellow terrorists also availed themselves of a second floor apartment Chams rented in a building across the street from the convenience store. The apartment was occupied by his sister, May Chams, and her husband, an Indian Muslim named “Khal” who disappeared from Venice in the aftermath of the 9/11 attack.

    Local Venice Yellow Cab driver Bob Simpson (whose testimony about Atta’s local associates was used by the FBI to apprehend a half-dozen Saudi nationals in Venice after the attack) says he picked up Mohamed Atta and his bodyguard Marwan at the apartment in his cab on several occasions, and taken them to the Orlando Airport.

    Even Zacharias Moussaoui, whose presence in Venice, was confirmed was seen at Chams’ apartment.

    “The FBI was especially interested in a rich Saudi guy, dressed in Armani, shades, manicure, and a gold Rolex, that I was sent to pick up at the Orlando Executive Airport,” said Simpson.

    “They (the FBI) knew he’d ridden in my cab because they’d gotten my cab number from a surveillance camera there.”

    Six weeks later, when Simpson received a call to go to the apartment to pick up the “rich Saudi in Armani and shades” and return him to the Orlando Airport,(Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi) the cabbie was asked to help carry a chest, the kind kept at the bottom of a bed, down from the apartment and load it into the trunk of the cab.

    “It was so heavy it took two people to carry it. I could not believe anything that small could weigh that much! It must have weighed at least 150 pounds.”

    Carrying the other end of the chest was someone Simpson recognized much later. “A big bald guy who I later identified as Zacharias Moussaoui helped me carry it down to the cab.”

    At some point after the attack Chams abandoned the mini-market (it has stood vacant since) and left Venice.

    A story in the Sarasota Herald Tribune called the abandoned convenience store, “A pocket of urban blight in the otherwise smartly tailored suit of downtown Venice.

    Chams went to San Diego, said his sister, who worked at Barclay’s Pharmacy in Venice (the same pharmacy visited by Mohamed Atta and his Cairo lawyer father two weeks before the 9/1 attack.

    Asked what he was doing in San Diego, she’d replied, “Helping out the FBI.”

    Then recently we learned Chams had been working as a contractor in Saudi Arabia for controversial San Diego defense firm Titan Corp a 23-year old company which sells information and communication services to military and spy agencies, and has about 12,000 employees and revenues of about $2 billion a year.

    An SEC filing last year Titan reported that Makram Chams had filed a $21 million lawsuit against them in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

    Apparently Titan didn’t hold the lawsuit against Chams, because he recently received a six-figure payout from Surebeam, a bankrupt Titan subsidiary which, in the aftermath of the anthrax scare had been the lucky recipient of a big windfall from the U.S. Post Office.

    Surebeam announced in a press release that the post office “would use Surebeam’s electron beam systems to eliminate the threat of anthrax in the U.S. mail system.”

    Despite there being not the slightest hint of scientific evidence that the company could perform as advertised, the firm was awarded a $40 million contract to set up machines to detect and kill anthrax spores,

    Makram Chams had apparently landed a $5 million contract in Riyadh for Surebeam with the Saudi Bin Laden Group.

    Surebeam, in a curious press release, had boasted of winning a $5 million contract in Saudi Arabia, “to build a network of Surebeam facilities within the Kingdom for pathogen and environmental pest control.”

    Oddly, the company which gave Surebeam the $5 million contract went unnamed in the press release, identified only as “a private Saudi Arabian conglomerate headquartered in Riyadh;” and as “a leading Saudi company whose business dealings involve high rise construction, large living compound construction, hotel design and construction, oil and gas projects, defense and security contracts.”

    Only one company fits this description, while at the same time being a firm Surebeam would have wanted to keep quiet about having as a business partner…The Saudi Bin Laden Group.

    Makram Chams curious curriculum vitae includes having been a partner in a gambling boat called Vegas-in-Venice, owned by a Philadelphia man alleged to have ties to organized crime. The gambling vessel somehow managed to operate for almost two years in Venice, despite having no approval to do so from the city of Venice, County of Sarasota, or State of Florida.

    The only other local partner in the gambling venture, Max Burge, also did business with Skyway Aircraft/Royal Son principal Frederick Geffon.

    In addition the well-connected Burge owned the light planes used by the terrorists in their flight training at Huffman Aviation, Burge once owned the Sandpiper Apartments across the street the airport where Mohamed Atta spent several months living with Amanda Keller and where the DEA had been conducting their surveillance out of.

    The DEA were secretly conducting their investigation of the drug smuggling from the same apartment building that Atta was staying at which was located right by the flight school.

    Terror flight school owner Wally Hilliard’s company’s Lear (N351WB) had been busted by DEA agents armed with machine guns, who, during the same month Atta arrived at his school, found 43 pounds of Al Qaeda heroin onboard.

    The same month Mohamed Atta arrived to attend his flight school in Venice, Huffman Aviation, the owner of that flight school, Wallace J. Hilliard, had his Lear jet confiscated on a runway at Orlando Executive Airport by DEA agents who found 43 pound of Bin Laden’s best uncut Al Qaeda heroin onboard.

    It was, said the Orlando Sentinel, the “biggest drug bust in Central Florida history,”

    How did a convenience store owner with unexplained links to Abramoff-style gambling boat interests connected with organized crime, and unexplained links with the terrorists in Venice, end up working for a well-connected defense contractor embroiled in numerous major controversies?

    9. honestjoe on January 31st, 2007 at 13:45
  8. Pierre Legrand

    The left has not touched this because it hurts their arguments since it is a “STATE” sponsored Special Ops mission with inside help from high ranking officials within the Iraqi government. The left does not want to go to war with Iran or anyone.

    I have dismissed nothing. I was just pointing out they are both killing “US” and were caught in the middle. Rather than arguing who is killing us less.

    26 years is incorrect it has been much much more. In 1953, the Central Intelligence Agency working in tandem with MI6 overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran, Dr. Mohammad Mossadeq. Mossadeq had been educated in the West, was pro-America, and had driven Communist forces out of the North of his Country shortly after being elected in 1951. Mossadeq then nationalized the oil fields, and denied British Petroleum a monopoly.

    The CIA’s own history department at CIA.GOV details how U.S. and British intelligence agents carried out terror attacks, and subsequently blamed them on Mossadeq.

    In the late 1990′s, large sections of operation AJAX were declassified. The field commander of operation AJAX was none other than the grandson of President Theodore Roosevelt, Kermit Roosevelt. Before his death in 2000, Roosevelt went public to the media, bragging about his patriotism in carrying out terror attacks in Iran and blaming it on the government.

    The provocations included propaganda, demonstrations, bribery, agents of influence and false flag operations. They bombed the home of a prominent religious leader, and blamed it on Mossadeq. They attacked mosques, machine gunned crowds, and then handed out thousands of handbills claiming Mossadeq had done it. The handbills read ‘Up With Mossadeq, Up With Communism, Down With Allah.’ Dr. Mohammad Mossadeq was incarcerated for the duration of his life, and fared better than many of his ministers, who were executed just days after the successful coup for crimes that the MI6 and CIA had committed. The CIA then formed the dreaded Iranian secret Police, SAVAK, and a 25 year rein of terror and torture then commenced.

    The operation was seen by western intelligence agencies as a huge success. The CIA then successfully used the exact same technique in scores of countries to overthrow elected governments and dictators alike.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ajax

    to make it more complicated go to

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra

    There is evidence that the cars were smuggled from the United States as part of a widespread criminal network that includes terrorists and insurgents.

    The FBI’s counterterrorism unit has launched a broad investigation of US-based theft rings after discovering that some of the vehicles used in deadly car bombings in Iraq, including attacks that killed US troops and Iraqi civilian.

    Cracking the car theft rings and tracing the cars could help identify the leaders of insurgent forces in Iraq and shut down at least one of the means they use to attack the US-led coalition and the Iraqi government, the officials said.

    The inquiry began after coalition troops raided a bomb-making factory in Fallujah last November and found a sport utility vehicle registered in Texas that was being prepared for a bombing mission.

    The origins of the vehicles in question were unearthed by tracing the vehicle identification numbers, or VINs — a standard production marker stamped on during manufacture — as well as through other forensic tools such as auto parts.

    The cars were stolen by local car thieves in US cities, then smuggled to waiting ships at ports in Los Angeles, Seattle, and Houston, among other cities. From there they are shipped to militants fighting in Iraq.

    Steven Emerson, who runs the Investigative Project on Terrorism, a Washington research firm that consults for law enforcement and intelligence agencies. [Auto theft] is an unregulated market. Some of the proceeds are going to terrorists.”

    Emerson said Al Qaeda terrorists suspected in suicide attacks in Saudi Arabia in recent years also apparently used cars stolen in the United States.

    Government officials think the vehicles insurgents use were stolen from locations as varied as Virginia, Maryland, Texas, and Florida. Arizona reported more than 56,000 vehicles stolen last year, the largest per-capita number of thefts in the country.

    Terrorism specialists think Iraqi insurgents prefer American stolen cars because they tend to be larger, blend in more easily with the convoys of US government and private contractors, and are harder to identify as stolen.

    US law enforcement and intelligence agencies are increasingly finding links between violent Islamic extremists groups and vast criminal enterprises such as drug trafficking, weapons smuggling, and car theft.

    “The 9/11 terror plot intersected with the activities of a drug trafficking network of international scope, in ways that form a “crystal clear” picture of what was going on,” said Edmonds.

    Terrorist groups are increasingly using illegal, highly lucrative business arrangements to support their operations, according to the FBI and other law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

    Investigators say the criminal activities that terrorists use to raise money run the gamut from creating and selling fake documents to insurance fraud. Taliban and Al Qaeda followers are thought to be heavily involved in the expanding heroin trade in Afghanistan.

    F.B.I. agent Sibel Edmonds told Congress, Al Qaeda is financed 95% by drug money, drug traffic to which the U.S. government shows a blind eye.

    The DEA were secretly conducting their investigation of the drug smuggling from the same apartment building that Atta was staying at which was located right by the flight school.

    Terror flight school owner Wally Hilliard’s company’s Lear (N351WB) had been busted by DEA agents armed with machine guns, who, during the same month Atta arrive at his school, found 43 pounds of Al Qaeda heroin onboard. We mustn’t forget Al Ali Al Sabah, Chief of the National Guard of Kuwait as well as the oldest member of the ruling Kuwaiti Royal Family, one of the dozen SAUDI and Kuwaiti “investors” in SkyWay.

    Or Ramy El-Batrawi and Adnan Khashoggi’s other major connection with the founder of SkyWay Aircraft and that the Securities and Exchange Commission charged Khashoggi and Ramy Al Batrawi, his lieutenant for the past 20 years, with stock fraud in U.S. District Court for Central California. Both men are both currently on the lam after being accused of orchestrating a $130 million fraud, called the “Stockwalk case,” involving the stock price of another firm headed by el-Batrawi called GenesisIntermedia. GenesisIntermedia was incorporated by the long-time attorney of the man once reckoned by the U.S. Government to be the biggest drug smuggler in American history…CIA pilot Barry Seal.

    Another company owned by Saudi billionaire Adnan Khashoggi, folded after being indicted for illegally ferrying TOW missiles to Iran, an “enterprise” which netted someone ”though not the U.S. Government or the Contras it was supposedly funding” a tidy bit of change a U.S. Senate investigation estimated to be $16 million dollars.

    In May of 2004 Titan Corp. announced in a press release a major purchase from SkyWay, a penny stock fraud company about to go bankrupt amid accusations by investors of fraud after they discovered the firm had nothing but non-existent products to show for its two year cash burn of almost $40 million.

    It gets worse by the fact that a Saudi who was a consultant for the American defense contractor Titan also was the owner of the quick check located by the flight scool that was used to wire the money to the terrorist and he was partners with the guy who leased the planes the terrorist trained with, as well as partners on a casino boat.

    A casino boat that some of the terrorist had been identified as haveing visited owned also by Jack Abramoff and that the CEO of the firm in partnership was a Tom Delay appointee and that the firm claims to specialise in counter-terrorism.

    Another government witness, Indira Singh said, “I was told that if I mentioned the money to the drugs around 9/11 that would be the end of me.”

    James G. Conway, Jr., legal attache at the US Embassy in Mexico City said; “where you find terrorists you often find some kind of criminal activity.”

    Car theft, a criminal enterprise that costs US citizens more than $8 billion a year, now seems to have become a new enterprise for some terrorist groups, according to the law enforcement officials and private specialists.

    “The car bomb is the top weapon in the world for carrying out terrorist attacks,” said Lieutenant Greg Terp, commander of the Miami-Dade Police Department’s Auto Theft Task Force. “These car thieves don’t necessarily know that they are financing terrorism, but they might.”

    Feel free to ask questions. The above post is just tid bits of a sample dish/appetizer. I dismiss nothing without thoroughly researching it.

    11. honestjoe on January 30th, 2007 at 13:16
  9. The left wing of the blogsphere has not touched this story. And the right wing did…

    Haven’t had a lot of time lately to post but I will say this. Those who say this is a coincidence got some splaining to do. Remember while this helicopter was accidently targeted 4 US Soldiers were being kidnapped in what appears to be a Iranian Special Ops mission.

    The problem I have with Honestjoe’s account is he seems to dismiss the 26 years we have been at war with Iran. Shiites have been killing us for far longer than Wahhabists. I believe they both can be killing us, not either or. Just because the Soviets and Americans had radically different views of life didn’t mean they couldn’t collaborate in killing Germans.

    Mr. Sylvestre as always my friend it is good to see you.

    13. Pierre Legrand on January 30th, 2007 at 08:43
  10. So, HonestJoe’s hypothesis of the helo shooting being the result of an inside job is deemed very plausible at first and is quickly relayed by other conservative blogs…

    …that is, until the guy’s follow-up opinion is not -horror !- fully in line with the conventional thinking of the PNAC/O’Reilly/Gibson fans (or is that called the AEI now ?) as he implies that the Kingdom(tm) might have as much to do with the current situation in Iraq as Iran does, and even more with respect to 9/11… hey presto, someone rationalizes that the helo could just as well have been shot inadvertently by a lucky insurgent (or is that three of them ?).

    To Cruiser and others: be careful guys ! If you start dismissing interesting opinions and plausible explanations just because these may lead to politically-incorrect (to you) conclusions, aren’t you just as bad as the MSM you despise for allegedly doing just that ? That tells you something about how the conservative blogosphere really works (BTW, the left-wing side of the blogosphere is probably guilty of the same sins).

    To HonestJoe: thank you for sharing your interesting view of a proxy war between the Saudis and Iran in Iraq with the US caught in the middle.

    To Pierre: thank you for hosting this interesting debate ;)

    Regards,
    Mr. Sylvestre

    14. Mr Sylvestre on January 30th, 2007 at 04:42
  11. Woops!, “helicopter” not “helocopter”

    15. Cruiser on January 29th, 2007 at 14:07
  12. I think the helocopter downing was likely a matter of odds rather than the result some master plan on the part of the jihadis. I suspect that higher-ups are more often transported by helocopter (it is safer and faster – and they need to be very mobile). So, when one is shot down while full of passengers their is a greater probability that higher officers (or CSMs) will be on board than one might otherwise expect (based on their small numbers in the overall force). This is especially so when the helo is not a part of an air assault – where you would expect the helos to be filled with grunts.

    16. Cruiser on January 29th, 2007 at 14:04
  13. How can a government that’s been intent upon using the terrorist attacks to carry out the invasion of Iraq, prevent bringing to justice those who’ve been established as being directly responsible for it?

    Not to mention the Saudi drug cartels and crime syndicate that stole and shiped the the vehicles used in the Karbala attack from the “US”!

    They have been tracked to Iraq and verified by the VIN of those vehicles. Late model vehicle types of those used by the US overseas have been the target for theft from the Gulf Coast and LA Basin areas. It is apparent that these are not chop-shop specials, but whole vehicles that are exiting through crime cartels, and then shifted to the Middle East.

    Though it is not a high priority amongst law enforcement… or they are very quiet about it.

    Foreign Agents by Default
    Although when it comes to our complex diplomatic threading with Saudi Arabia the easiest answer appears to be the “oil factor,” upon further inspection the Saudi’s influence and role extends into other areas, such as the Military Industrial Complex and the too familiar Lobbying Games.

    According to the report published by the Federation of American Scientists (FAS), Saudi Arabia is America’s top customer. Since 1990 the U.S. government, through the Pentagon’s arms export program, has arranged for the delivery of more than $39.6 billion in foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia, and an additional $394 million worth of arms were delivered to the Saudi regime through the State Department’s direct commercial sales program. Oil rich Saudi Arabia is a cash-paying customer; a compulsive buyer of our weaponry. The list of U.S. sellers includes almost all the major players such as Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and Boeing.

    The report by FAS establishes that despite the show of U.S. support demonstrated by this astounding quantity of arms sales, Saudi Arabia’s human rights record is extremely poor; see the U.S. State Department’s 2000 Human Rights Report. Saudi Arabia’s position as a strategic Gulf ally has blinded U.S. officials into approving a level and quality of arms exports that should never have been allowed to a non-democratic country with such a poor human rights record.

    Saudi’s have an active role as a player in the nuclear black-market. According to Mohammed Khilewi, first secretary at the Saudi mission to the United Nations until July 1994, the Saudis have sought a bomb since 1975; they sought to buy nuclear reactors from China, supported Pakistan’s nuclear program, and contributed $5 billion to Iraq’s nuclear weapons program between 1985 and 1990. While the U.S. government vocally opposes the development or procurement of ballistic missiles by non-allies, it has been very quiet in Saudi Arabia’s case, considering the fact that it possesses the longest-range ballistic missiles of any developing country.

    17. honestjoe on January 29th, 2007 at 13:58
  14. Pierre Legrand

    I should have been more clear it was late and I was tired. I was meaning in the mindset of the Muslim world there concepts, ideals and beliefs are not at all like ours. To “ALL” of them we are invaders!

    Look I could go on for days to prove that there have been attacks on our military in Iraq that have been (for some time now) “STATE” sponsored. This is not new at all and it is not just done secretly by Iran but openly by the Saudi’s.

    Saudi’s are collaborating with terrorists and have attacked us with proxies.

    The reason we are only talking about Iran and not Saudi is because The Saudis have huge influence in this country, both politically and economically.

    The most important facet of this influence to consider is what happens when the active and powerful foreign entities “objectives are in direct conflict with our nation” objectives and its interests and security; and when this is the case, who pays the ultimate price and how.

    I’ll illustrate this with the most important recent case, the catastrophe endured by our people; the September Eleven terrorist attacks. Let’s observe how certain foreign interests, combined with their U.S. agents and benefactors, overrode the interests and security of the entire nation; how thousands of victims and their loved ones were kicked aside to serve the interests of a few; foreign influence and its agents.

    Senator Graham’s Revelation
    It has been established that two of the 9/11 hijackers had a support network in the U.S. that included agents of the Saudi government, and that the Bush administration and the FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship.

    In his book, “Intelligence Matters,” Senator Bob Graham made clear that some details of that financial support from Saudi Arabia were in the 27 pages of the congressional inquiry’s final report that were blocked from release by the administration, despite the pleas of leaders of both parties in the House and Senate intelligence committees.

    “The most serious omission, in my view, is part 4 of the report, which is entitled Finding, Discussion and Narrative Regarding Certain Sensitive National Security Matters. Those 27 pages have almost been entirely censured. The declassified version of this finding tells the American people that our investigation developed information suggesting specific sources of foreign support for some of the September 11 hijackers while they were in the United States. In other words, officials of a foreign government are alleged to have aided and abetted the terrorist attacks on our country on September 11, which took over 3,000 lives.”

    “Our investigators found a CIA memo dated August 2, 2002, whose author concluded that there is incontrovertible evidence that there is support for these terrorists within the Saudi government. On September 11, America was not attacked by a nation-state, but we had just discovered that the attackers were actively supported by one, and that state was our supposed friend and ally Saudi Arabia.”

    “We had discovered an FBI asset who had a close relationship with two of the terrorists; a terrorist support network that went through the Saudi Embassy; and a funding network that went through the Saudi Royal family.”

    The Treasury and State Departments have catalogued the Saudi government’s decades of support for Bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

    18. honestjoe on January 29th, 2007 at 13:08
  15. Now you have lost me Honestjoe…

    If you honestly believe that our invasion of Iraq was on par with the terrorists then that was an interesting tale about the helicopter but you are astray on the rest.

    Saddam was collaborating with terrorists. He warned us he would attack us with proxies. He tried to murder a former President. He tried to blow up Radio Free Europe and the list goes on. I will post more later after I get home from work.

    20. Pierre Legrand on January 29th, 2007 at 08:28
  16. Remember that Sadr met with Al Qaeda officials, Syrian and Iranian Presidents last year in Damascus. One of their announcements was to defend each other against America.

    The Iraqi concepts of a constitution and a republic are not like American ones. We will not be any more successful than the British were in the twentieth century in forcing the Iraqi people to conform to our ideals of government or in accepting us as the de facto rulers of their land. We are wasting our time, our money, and especially the lives of our brave young people in a futile effort that originally had nothing to do with the war on terror but much to do with American attempts to control a strategic area of the Middle East that just happens to be loaded with oil.

    15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudis. Many in the Saudi government played a direct role in funding 9/11. Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship that makes Iraq under Saddam Hussein look like Disneyworld. Lets capture the Saudis who funded 9/11 and rid the country of its ayatollahs!

    Once we leave they will fight each other doing our job for “US” while we rebuild and reunite our great country!

    So let “US” turn the table and start using them and there resources.

    The first thing you will see if we let them fight it out with each other is gas prices will fall because the Saudi’s will be forced to increase oil production as a crucial step against Iran.

    Leaving Iraq will give “US” the ablity to fight the war on terror by going after the Saudi named Osama Bin Laden!

    Each day in Iraq helps terrorists and weakens America. We can not fight terrorism effectively while engaging in an act (The invasion occupation of Iraq) that is on par with the behavior of the terrorists and Osama Bin Laden. An exit of Iraq is a first step toward regaining our credibility, strengthening our forces, and being in a position where we can effectively combat the real terrorists.

    21. honestjoe on January 29th, 2007 at 02:39
  17. THE BIG PICTURE!

    Understand that Iran and Saudi Arabia are pulling the strings.

    What we have here is a proxy war between Iran and the Saudis.

    Iran is backing the Shias in the south, Saudi Arabia is backing the Sunnis.

    Saudi’s “OPEN” support includes financial backing for minority Sunnis because of the civil war between them and Iraq’s Shiite majority. Before that the Sunnis were geting the money from private donations such as extremist Wahhabi mosques and the Bin Laden family wich is an immensely wealthy family intimately connected with the innermost circles of the Saudi royal family.

    Pierre Legrand said:
    “How can we continue to fight if the very government we are fighting to protect is aiding and abetting attacks on us?”

    Sunni Al-Qaeda has a serious enemy close at hand: Shi’ite Iran. Al-Qaeda’s primary foes have always been Arab regimes not in accordance with extreme fundamentalist Wahhabist theology. But that theology is also full of contempt for those regarded by Al-Qaeda and most Sunnis as heretics: the Shi’ites of Iran.

    So what are these two talking about?

    Cheney said:
    Remember what bin Laden’s strategy is. He doesn’t think he can beat us in the stand-up fight. He thinks he can force us to quit. He believes that, after Lebanon in ’83 and Somalia in ’93, that the United States doesn’t have the stomach for a long war.

    And Iraq is the current central battlefield in that war, and we must win there. It’s absolutely essential that we win there, and we will win there

    SEN. LIEBERMAN said:
    I do, because there is so much on the line in Iraq. We overthrew Saddam Hussein. We, we have been working, and, as the president said the other night, a lot of mistakes, terrible mistakes, have been made, but we’ve been working in the larger context of the war on terrorism, the war against the Islamic radicals who attacked us on 9/11, the threat that Iran represents, to create in Iraq an alternative path to the future which is democratic, small D, self-governing, self-protecting.

    According to them we are actually fighting bin Laden in Iraq.

    But we should be fighting the terrorist in Saudi Arabia!

    Remember Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar’s US visas. [Source: FBI] Hijackers Nawaf Alhazmi, Salem Alhazmi, and Khalid Almihdhar obtain US visas through the US Consulate in Jeddah, “SAUDI ARABIA”. [US Congress, 7/24/2003] All three are already “al-Qaeda veterans” and battle-hardened killers. Almihdhar’s visa is issued on April 7, and he thereafter leaves and returns to the US multiple times until April 6, 2000. [Stern, 8/13/2003] Nawaf Alhazmi gets the same kind of visa; details about Salem are unknown. The CIA claims the hijackers then travel to Afghanistan to participate in “special training” with at least one other suicide bomber on a different mission. The training is led by Khallad bin Attash. The US learns about Almihdhar’s visa in January 2000. The Jeddah Consulate keeps in its records the fact that Nawaf and Alhazmi obtain US visas several days before Almihdhar, but apparently these records are never searched before 9/11. [US Congress, 7/24/2003]

    Abdulla Noman, a former employee of the US consulate in Jeddah, “SAUDI ARABIA”, where “15″ of the 19 9/11 hijackers got their visas, says that he took money and gifts to provide fraudulent visas to foreigners. He pleads guilty and is convicted. About 50 to 100 visas were improperly issued by Noman from September 1996 until November 2001, when he was arrested. However, a former visa officer in Jeddah, Michael Springmann, has claimed in the past that the Jeddah office was notorious for purposefully giving visas to terrorists to train in the US (see September 1987-March 1989). [Associated Press, 5/21/2002]

    Hijacker Khalid Almihdhar reenters the US. The CIA and FBI have recently been showing interest in him, but have still failed to place him on a watch list of US-designated terrorists. Had he been placed on a watch list by this date, he would have been stopped and possibly detained as he tried to enter the US. He enters on a new US visa obtained in Jeddah, “SAUDI ARABIA”, on June 13, 2001. [US Congress, 7/24/2003 ] The FBI notes that he returns just days after the last of the hijacker “muscle” has entered the US, and speculates that he returns because his job in bringing them over is finished. [US Congress, 7/24/2003]

    Visa applications for the 15 “SAUDI ARABIAN HIJACKERS” are made public, and six separate experts agree: “All of them should have been denied entry [into the US].” Joel Mowbray, who first breaks the story for the conservative National Review, says he is shocked by what he saw: “I really was expecting al-Qaeda to have trained their operatives well, to beat the system. They didn’t have to beat the system, the system was rigged in their favor from the get-go.” A former US consular officer says the visas show a pattern of criminal negligence. Some examples: “Abdulaziz Alomari claimed to be a student but didn’t name a school; claimed to be married but didn’t name a spouse; under nationality and gender, he didn’t list anything.” “Khalid Almihdhar … simply listed ‘Hotel’ as his US destination—no name, no city, no state but no problem getting a visa.” Only one actually gave a US destination, and one stated his destination as “no.” Only Hani Hanjour had a slight delay in acquiring his visa. His first application was flagged because he wrote he wanted to visit for three years when the legal limit is two. When he returned two weeks later, he simply changed the form to read “one year” and was accepted. The experts agree that even allowing for chance, incompetence, and human error, the odds were that only a few should have been approved. [New York Post, 10/9/2002; ABC News, 10/23/2002]

    I suppose Sunni bin Laden and Sunni al Qaeda could declare a jihad against Iran….It would take us out of the gunsights….

    bin Laden v. the Ayatollah

    If America withdrew from Iraq and a Sunni-Shi’ite war took off, the narrative of the long war would inevitably change. It would go from Islam versus the West to Islam versus itself and we would reap dividends in the long run.

    Redefining the war on terror as essentially the product of ancient feuds within Islam immediately shifts the argument onto terrain favourable to the West. As it stands now our being in Iraq unites the Muslim world against “US”.

    Both sides are using “US” our children and our resources!

    22. honestjoe on January 29th, 2007 at 00:06
  18. Maliki seems to be on the otherside…this would amount to a body blow to our efforts as they are currently focused. The United States keeps acting like the kid who fell off the turnip truck yesterday…we need to start acting like the HyperPower we are. Eliminate Iranian regime now….

    24. Pierre Legrand on January 28th, 2007 at 17:26
  19. News on Fox reports Sadr and his lieutenants have gone to Iran at Maliki’s urging. The mahdi army weapons are under the control of the Ministry of the Interior so that they will not be consfiscated. Maliki was making the right moves and now has once again protected Sadr who will no doubt reclaim his weapons when the US leaves.

    25. Pat in NC on January 28th, 2007 at 17:08

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