Pierre Legrand’s Pink Flamingo Bar

(This commenter really took me to task for claiming that the actions of the Reagan Administration were shameful after the Marine Barracks bombing and this is my answer to a longish response of his. This is not an exact duplicate as I discovered some minor errors in editing. See original comments here)

First let me say that we probably agree on a lot more than you know. But lately these last couple of years I have become disenchanted with politicians in general. From my point of view just because I disagree with Democrats does not make me a Republican, nor vice versa. While I tend to agree more often with Republicans its usually that I am settling on the best of two bad choices. Not that the Republicans are actually either what I consider moral or particularly bright but that they are less evil. The long and short of it is I don’t like politicians as a class of people. They are a necessary evil not an answer which I believe allows me to see the evil that both sides commit.

Admittedly the Democrats are a lot closer to terribly bad than the Republicans but neither one of them is invited to date my daughters or sell me a car. Having said that let me say thank you for the compliment on my site…now back to the show. hehe…in case you forget what  you said you will be indented, bolded, and italicized…jus cuz.

If you are as conservative as you say you are (and btw, nice website),

Whether I am or not is up to me. Whether others think so does not concern me.

surely you will agree that anything coming out of CNN ought to be viewed with great skepticism. The transcript you have provided provides quotes from McFarlane, Snow, etc.,

Yes but the problem you have is those quotes back up what I was saying, not what you were saying. Here let me demonstrate…

1. LT. GEN. LAWRENCE SNOWDEN (RET.): We had every reason to believe that Hezbollah was the unit that did the job. And we do know that the operation had the support of the Syrian government, and the Iranian government.
2. ROBERTS: A civil case in 2003 did just that. The judge ruled the suicide bombing was carried out by Hezbollah, with the approval and funding of Iran. Retired Admiral James Lyons testified U.S. officials intercepted a message from the Iranian ambassador to Syria.(I include the Robert’s quote for clarity because Admiral Lyons puts paid to the fantasy of Casper that he was holding on to in 2000 that we still didn’t have proof of Iran’s involvement)

   ADMIRAL LYONS: This is the smoking gun. There was proof positive to coordinate their attacks against the multinational force, and in particular, the United States Marines.

3. LT GENERAL SNOWDEN: There was a real concern that if there was an accidental discharge of a weapon, some, quote, “innocent civilian” might be killed or wounded in that parking lot, but in hindsight, it was not a good idea.(This is comical and should be remembered when we laugh at the British for not firing on the Iranians, our Marines did not even have their guns loaded)
   
4. GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We’re not going to let a bunch of insidious terrorists, cowards, shape the foreign policy of the United States.(Laying the law down…or was he?)
   
5. REAGAN: Those who directed this atrocity must be dealt justice and they will be.
   REAGAN: If we were to leave Lebanon now, what message would that send to those who foment instability and terrorism.(More laying the law down…but there is a fly in the ointment)
   
6. ROBERTS: By now, American intelligence had traced the seeds of the attack to a barracks in Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley, where Hezbollah was holed up. The Navy was ready to strike back.(Again I include Roberts only for clarification)

   ADMIRAL LYONS: We went ahead and made up the plans. We had the photography. It was a great radar target. There’s nothing else around. And we were going to take out all 250 of them.
   NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR MCFARLANE: The president called the National Security Council together. He was convinced himself that the target was responsible in the Bekaa Valley, that Hezbollah had done the deed, and that’s where they trained and were armed.
   There were arguments, disagreements. Weinberger disagreed, thought it would have a very negative impact on our relations in the Arab states. The president said, “Well, I believe we have to do this.”
   ADMIRAL LYONS: We had the planes loaded. It would have been a minute and a half strike, in and out in a minute and a half, and we would have sent the message that everybody was waiting for us to send. We never got the orders to launch.
   NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR MCFARLANE: I was awakened at home by the situation room, with the word that the attack had been aborted. I was speechless. I said, “By whom?” and I was told the Secretary of Defense. I was thunderstruck. I went down to the office and called Cap right away and asked him, what in the world happened? He said, “Well, Bud, I believed it was a bad idea, and it would have done us great harm.” and I said, “Cap, the president of the United States approved this.”

   (Maybe you are too young to remember I don’t know but Casper Weinberger was what has been known as an Arabist. Grover Norquist is also one as is James Baker. Which is actually irrelevant to the argument since our argument revolves around whether the Reagan Administration failed to punish those who killed US Servicemen)
   

7. REAGAN: But that is no reason to turn our backs on friends and to cut and run. If we do, we’ll be sending one signal to terrorists everywhere. They can gain by waging war against innocent people.
8. REAGAN: Now, one fact, though it’s already obvious, the problem of terrorism will not disappear if we run from it.
9. MCFARLANE: I think he understood very well the withdrawal of American forces, anywhere, at any time, is a negative signal, a sign of weakness. Shortly thereafter he acknowledged that we’re going to pay a price for this downstream
10. SNOWDEN: I think the terrorists had good memories, and they remember that, when we were pushed up against the wall, and they successfully attacked us like that, there was a demand for the troops to come home, and they did.
    MCFARLANE: To absorb such a horrific loss as the Marines suffered in Beirut, without reacting, implies that you can attack the United States and not pay a price for it. That we’re too weak, irresolute, politically paralyzed, and that is intolerable for a great power.(Well ok that laying down the law stuff is ok when its just talk but when it comes to steel to flesh…hmmm)
    1. Lets summarize shall we?
       1. Marines put into a desperate situation with a pitiful ROE: Check.
          1. Unarmed Check
       2. Marines get attacked and killed in numbers not seen since Iwo Jima: Check.
       3. Government officials talk smack: Check
       4. Government officials back down: Check.
       5. Terrorists emboldened: Check.
    2. Well done Reagan administration.

but the majority of that transcript is nothing but editorializing by John Roberts and painting the picture CNN wants to put on display.

Gee that was quite a bit that I just posted and it is pretty damning that the Reagan administration blew it. Remember that I worked on the Reagan campaign…didn’t mention that did I?

I have noted that since the U.K./Iran debacle this past week, there is a growing tendency on the part of some individuals to try and paint Ronald Reagan as somehow being negligent or less than engaged in the early years of the Islamofascist war on the United States, and yet the fact remains that Iran released our hostages the day Reagan was sworn in, and that wasn’t because they thought he was nice guy and easy to deal with, far from it.

I was under the impression it was because he was making deals to release the hostages. But you think it was they were scared of the US? Or him personally before he had even gotten into office? If that is the case then having their Proxies blow the crap out of the Marine Headquarters/Barracks seems contradictory.

Reagan actually sank the better part of the Iranian navy as mentioned by poster ‘ithinkBIG’ above, so while the U.S. actions following the Marines barracks bombing of ‘83 can be debated ad infinitum, the fact is that Reagan remained engaged in the Middle East, the U.S. did not leave Israel to fend for itself, when it came to the Straits of Hormuz, we kept them open and Iran paid the price for messing with us in that area, we bombed the Libyan bozo Gaddafi, and this all took place under the shadow of the continuing Soviet threat in the waning years of the Cold War.

I didn’t claim he did everything wrong just that he didn’t do the Marine Barracks right.

I note also, that McFarlane (quoted extensively in this CNN ‘report’) was only Reagan’s National Security Advisor for the better part of two years, ‘83 to ‘85. I have to also question just how stable McFarlane is, as he tried to off himself with valium in ‘87 claiming he ‘failed his country’ due to the Iran-Contra nonsense.

You sure that you are not a leftist? Because that attack was straight out of the playbook. Attack the messenger not the message…for shame.

That isn’t rational behavior, and I think it means that his statements ought to be viewed with at least a slight degree of skepticism. How many of his recollections are accurate? Who can say? I can’t, and neither can you. I’m not saying McFarlane is the bad guy, far from it but it would be absolutely SOP for a yellow journalistic enterprise like CNN to take advantage of someone who had been through that kind of trauma, both personally and professionally. I think the entire CNN ‘product’ is questionable.

Perhaps you missed the other personalities:

• LIEUTENANT GENERAL LAWRENCE F. SNOWDEN, U.S. MARINE CORPS (Ret) (This bio is from the Beirut International Airport Bombing Page he was on the commission investigating the bombing)

Lieutenant General Snowden retired as Chief of Staff, Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps, in May 1979, after 37 years of active service which included combat duty in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. Lieutenant General Snowden served as a regimental commander in Vietnam; Director of the Marine Corps Development Center; Chief of Staff, U.S. Forces, Japan; and Operations Deputy of the Marine Corps with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Upon his retirement, Lieutenant General Snowden joined Hughes Aircraft International Service Company in Tokyo where he is currently Vice President, Far East Area.

James A. Lyons Jr. is a retired U.S. Navy admiral and former commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, senior U.S. Military Representative to the United Nations and Deputy Chief of Naval Operations, where he was principal adviser on all Joint Chiefs of Staff matters. (Oh found this little tidbit when I went looking for Admiral Lyons bio…he was quite the Star having maneuvered his fleet twice in such a fashion that he both surprised and angered the Soviets. Surely he has some credibility?)“On October 25, the chief of naval intelligence notified Lyons of an intercept of a message between Tehran and Damascus that had been made on or about September 26, 1983. The message had been sent from MOIS [the Iranian Ministry of Information and Security] to the Iranian ambassador in Syria, Ali Akbar Mohtashemi….The message directed the ambassador to contact Hussein Musawi, the leader of the terrorist group Islamic Amal, and to instruct [Musawi to] have his group instigate attacks against the multinational coalition in Lebanon, and to take a spectacular action against the United States Marines.”

The ruling continues: “Lyons testified that he has absolutely no doubt about the authenticity or reliability of the message, which he took immediately to the secretary of the navy and [the] chief of naval operations, who viewed it, as he did, as a ‘24-karat gold document’.”

If someone wants to put the blame on somebody for the current jihad that the West is facing, they need look no further than the traitor Jimmy Carter who set the whole thing in motion starting with the betrayal of the Shah.

Absolutely no argument there…the worst President of the last 100 years. Perhaps the worst President of all time.

Were mistakes made during the Reagan Administration? Of course there were, no Administration is fault free. But these convenient post-mortems of the Reagan years while we are engaged in the current war on Islamofascism serve only one purpose, to demoralize conservatives and boost the fortunes of the left.

No actually if we don’t acknowledge mistakes we will continue to make them. Matter of fact that is exactly what we are doing as we watch President Bush continue the proud tradition of NOT holding States accountable for terror. Am I glad about Iraq and Afghanistan? You bet. Was WW2 over after we invaded Morocco and Sicily? Nope. The left will be defeated by our deliberate drive to defeat our enemy. Not by our halfway measures to appease them as well as defeat an enemy whose main purpose in life is our complete and utter destruction. But the left is another subject…maybe you can school us on your tactics…hehehe.

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